Curse

lazyrussian · Aug 27, 2007, 07:58 PM // 19:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by arsie

Out of 10 professions, 4 can do without spells, and 6 has to cast spells.*
* Warrior, Paragons, Assassins, Rangers CAN arguably do without spells. I feel that Dervishes cannot do without it.

Sins can't hold for too long if they don't have some type of enchantment spell.

Their more vulnerable to melee, less energy regen, slower attack speed.

In your eyes I could be considered a enchantment-RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO, but lately I've been using the A/D Death Blossom Farmer for Farming and PvEing, and it completely relies on being able to use and sustain enchantments.

^---I get about 3K per 15 minutes with that build (this includes "merching" the golds/purples that drop).

Sqube · Aug 28, 2007, 02:12 AM // 02:12

Coloneh, I don't mean to seem disingenuous, but are mesmers worthless, or only human mesmers?

Are they universally worthless, or only worthless in PvE?

Coloneh · Aug 28, 2007, 02:50 AM // 02:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sqube

Coloneh, I don't mean to seem disingenuous, but are mesmers worthless, or only human mesmers?

Are they universally worthless, or only worthless in PvE?

For the most part, both. I suppose a hero mesmer could be used as a third SF hero or something, but i would prefer olias.

and mesmers are incredibly useful in PvP I wont ever say that they aren't. but in PvE, theyr useless.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

Why are you talking about PvE? It's PvP that really shows how good characters can be.

This is the PvE forum section. maybe you clicked the wrong one on accident?

Quote:

Originally Posted by haggus71

QFT

Coloneh, just because you can't play a class well doesn't mean it sucks. Yes, any retard can slap a leet SF/SH build on their ele and cause massive AoE. Come across a good Power Block mesmer build, and that ele is useless and dead in five seconds.

Anyone that says certain classes suck has their head in the sand. I've played every class but Monk and Dervish, and they all have their points. Played by the right person, they will shine. The thing is to understand their mechanics and perform within those boundaries. As said ad infinitum, sins go in, kill the softie, then jump out or, if they are safe enough, jump to the next kill. Played that way, they are the most lethal 1-v-1 in the game.

It's one thing to say "I hate sins" or I hate playing mesmers". That is a matter of taste. Saying "Paragons suck" just shows your ignorance. That or just flaming for its own sake, which is just as lame.

so you're responding to me saying "mesmers cant Own Mobs" by saying "a human mesmer can shutdown that ele so he cant own Mobs"...... are you kidding? when do you need to shutdown that enemy SF ele in PvE?

The only class that is crap is mesmers(In PvE). i will say that Paragon skills are a bit underpowered, but i wont pretend that thats not an opinion. Mesmers are underpowered because of the simple fact that in PvE they effectively have no advantage as a primary class. Fast casting has no use at all. yes, strength is as useless as fast casting, but warrior primaries get 80 base armor. mesmers dont.

"I own at 1v1"...... good argument, you dont sound like a mending wammo at all. /sarcasm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angra

Oh, Really?

*cough*

And bring Mantra of Recovery for a bit of fun.

yes, I see your point. PvX wiki really needs to work on how people vote for a build, pretty off-topic though.

pingu666 · Aug 28, 2007, 03:07 AM // 03:07

actully i often run melee shutdown in ab on my mesmer... ineptitude is just too funny

Enko · Aug 28, 2007, 03:11 AM // 03:11

i've been pushing my mesmer through all three campaigns now with just tyria left and its actually pretty fun. a lot of the bosses are a lot easier now. paragon's pretty fun too. its just that you need to realize that mesmers or paragons are not designed for mass damage. once you break away from that line of thought, you can actually enjoy mesmers and paragons for the different style of play.

Arcain · Aug 28, 2007, 03:12 AM // 03:12

odd, I do great in PVE with my Mesmer. Mes makes a great combo with Heros and hench also, because the healers stay back with you, and don't run in. If you think mesmer sucks for PVE, then you don't know anything about the class.

pingu666 · Aug 28, 2007, 03:19 AM // 03:19

strength has a ton of skills aswell. something that erks me too is mesmers dont have a decent self heal, while other classes have 2 or more :\

basicaly mesmers are the least effective in pve, its like a spkyer F1 car, worst of the bunch, but still good...

Coloneh · Aug 28, 2007, 08:42 PM // 20:42

the mesmer-lovers are bringing it back to my original point now that they dont actually have a reason for using them besides "I do good with them, u stupid if you think they no do good."

jesh · Aug 30, 2007, 12:57 AM // 00:57

I have to agree with Coloneh.
I have played a mesmer all the way through pve more than once.
Yes it can be fun. Yes, you can do some things effectively.
However, the things that a mesmer does best just aren't valued 99% of the time. Raw damage works better.
In PvP, of course this is not the case.

fireflyry · Sep 04, 2007, 07:37 AM // 07:37

There are idiots in every class, fact is most classes are far more forgiving than Assassin.

A Sin is a melee skilled character with the relative armor class, or squishyness (skill dependant), of a caster.If Ele's had to do all their work while standing next to the mob and taking aggro you'd see just as much hate towards them as there is towards sins.

That does'nt make it the worst class in the game, it just makes it the most transparent for spotting crap players.

You'll notice, and possibly whine incessantly about, as many do, the dead sin before you realize your Warrior/Monk/Elemental is a moron as well.Fact is they get more leeway through either armor rating, skills, aggro or mob proximity.

It's that simple.

A crap Sin is dead in 2 seconds, 99% of the time first, 100% of the time the whole team notices it immediately and god forbid they get rezzed to instantly die just as easily again.Players of similar inaptitude in other classes are far less noticeable to the team.A crap warrior can often get by on his armor class alone and a few basic skills in many levels without anyone noticing a thing, a caster merely due to the fact they are in the back line, etc, etc.

If any class was more unintentionally designed to be the common, all be it unfairly at times, scapegoat of a team in GW it's the badly played Assassin.It's the choice of least thought and first target in the team wipe abuse cross-hairs.

Imo Assassin is the hardest class to play well.It's high risk, high skill, high reward.That's why I like it the best.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcain

odd, I do great in PVE with my Mesmer. Mes makes a great combo with Heros and hench also, because the healers stay back with you, and don't run in. If you think mesmer sucks for PVE, then you don't know anything about the class.

I would state the complete opposite.

Any class looks great in certain PvE where your henchies/heroes take all the aggro.Heck you could run a completely empty skill bar and still "pwn teh mobz" if your sending henchies in first.That does'nt make a class great.I'd like to see it work in high level.Fact is I would'nt, and never will.

It's not about Mesmers sucking man, it's the fact they are the most ineffective main class in PvE.Also most who say that speak from experience, don't think otherwise.

It's awfully off-topic though, maybe another thread should be started as I thought this was targeted specifically at the Sin class.

SotiCoto · Sep 04, 2007, 11:42 AM // 11:42

Mesmers?

As far as PvE goes... the Mesmer Class only exists to supplement other classes.... IMHO. That'd be why Mesmer Secondary is an excellent choice in so many situations (Especially the Inspiration line for Hex / Ench removal, Energy gain and defensive Mantras... and the unattributed Echo + Arcane Echo)... and yet Mesmer Primaries are bloody rare... mostly because Fast Casting sucks balls in PvE.

Experienced · Sep 05, 2007, 06:06 AM // 06:06

XD if you call them terrible.. I will KILL you!!

( Ingame )

They are the ULTIMATE profession

Incredible and match my personality exactly.. although i want a more dangerous profession ^^

Issac · Sep 05, 2007, 09:37 PM // 21:37

I made a sin not to long ago, they do some pretty good damage as far as I've seen. Some stuff you don't know until you play that profession, thats how the assassin is.

Icy DS · Sep 06, 2007, 02:31 AM // 02:31

Is there such a thing as a skilled assassin?

Can one be better than another at pressing 1 2 3?

fireflyry · Sep 06, 2007, 03:10 AM // 03:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Icy DS

Is there such a thing as a skilled assassin?

Can one be better than another at pressing 1 2 3?

Every offensive melee class has a repetitive attack chain cycle.Dervish and especially Warriors are no different.

What's your point?

For a Sin, if not all classes, skill is defined by tactics and effectiveness, not by your attack chain.

BLOODGOAT · Sep 06, 2007, 03:28 AM // 03:28

This is a really trite argument. Let me introduce you to my monk.
6, 7... 1, 8, 6, 7, 5, 6, 7, 5, 1

Enemies aren't dead yet? Here, let's try this:
6, 7... 1, 8, 6, 7, 5, 6, 7, 5, 1

Not dead still? Well then, how about another combo:
6, 7... 1, 8, 6, 7, 5, 6, 7, 5, 1

Icy DS · Sep 06, 2007, 05:04 AM // 05:04

BLOODGOAT,

You have 7 and 5 in the wrong order! Try it again and maybe they will die silly goose!

Yanman.be · Sep 06, 2007, 10:06 AM // 10:06

What build is that BLOODGOAT?

RhanoctJocosa · Sep 06, 2007, 10:26 AM // 10:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanman.be

What build is that BLOODGOAT?

Looks like a 55 of some sort, 6 and 7 being balth spirit etc.

Oh wait, he uses 6 and 7 more than once. :X

Melody Cross · Sep 06, 2007, 11:05 AM // 11:05

Assassins are the easiest class to get killed by playing wrong. If you've just started playing GW, then yes: they are the worst thing you could start with because they have the steepest learning curve. They don't forgive mistakes.

Paragons are the most nerfed in recent memory (that doesn't make them a bad class at all; it just shows how unbelievably powerful they used to be). I'm including the necro energy management nerfs in that statement; Paras got slaughter-poomped by comparison. And yet, HA still sees balanced builds with paragons holding halls. Paragons second warriors in terms of armor. Its a no brainer to see the appeal of the class. At least it should be. i blame whining and bad farm capability on the classes loss of appeal.

Mesmers are the most misunderstood and underrated by people who don't know better (PvP: mesmers dominate; PvE: try Duncan with and without one then talk). People ignore the power interrupts give to the game because direct damage and direct healing is easier to understand. A mesmer interrupting an SF cast in either PvP or PvE is a powerful action. Not only does it have the capability of damaging your opponent (armor ignoring damage that can range over 100) it reduces the damage that backline characters need to heal. That same mesmer shutting down a monks Aegis (AI monks use Aegis now

)? its should be pretty obvious to even the most ardent detractors that interrupting skills and spells have a place in the game.

In either playstyle, good disruptive capability is a double threat. Fools don't see that (meaning no disrespect...well, maybe a little disrespect

). Most of the better players I know that are using Gwen aren't just using her because she looks nice.

While I said sins are the easiest class to get killed by playing wrong, they are not the hardest class to play. Human mesmers do not have the server ping and reflexes of AI. They are largly disrespected because they can't powerblock a reversal of fortunewill. But where they excel beyond AI is threat analysis. The truly good ones know what they should shut down to help the team the best. It may be the monk. It may not.

But a bad mesmer probably won't die missing interrupts and shutting down the wrong target. She'll just get other players killed doing it.

Ritualists are the most misunderstood and underrated by players who should know better. Lots of whining in game about rits being too easy to play=rits are a far more powerful class than people give them credit.

Necromancers? Comeon; half the hero builds I see people run require an SS or MM in PvE. Their hex spam has nearly broken GvG meta and they've always had a place in HA PvP.

Dervishes...have broken the meta twice now. Grenth's dervs destroyed heavy enchant builds. Melandru dervs are still kicking. If you like to PvE tank, run an Ebon Dust Aura derv. The damage they prevent is often more than anything a warrior's armor can boast. While they can't extend into a backline the way wars can, the damage output makes them fearful in pvp even after the avatar nerf (and nerf and nerf...and nerf).

and Rangers? Ask a monk or a runner if rangers suck in PvP. Run a R/Rt in PvE (splinter and barrage can outpace many AoE caster builds). I think the disruptive aspects...I think I covered that with mesmers.

The rest is whats called the "holy trinity" Warriors, Monks and Elemenalists. Easy to see what they can do, and they do it quite well. They wax and wane in popularity, but there is almost always a place in a balanced build for these three characters.

Are any classes "the worst"? In the end, I say no. They are all good at doing what they do. The real question should be: "what do you want to do?" Most class bias is based on the other players expierience with the class. if they sucked at it, you must also...or else they might not be as good as they thought they were

So do what you want to do and play the class you like to play. Some players will scorn your choices, but you know their dirty little secret (most of they suck; if they won't invite you its a good thing for you...because when the team wipes after they did invite you--and messed up--its you they'll blame). Some will see your skill and want you in groups--playing what you play. those people make friends, make guilds, win tournies and farm phat lewts

GGs